Baptism August 30, 2007
Posted by Jackie Sampson in : Uncategorized , trackbackBarbara and I talked about this when we were together. We were raised in the Baptist church and their belief was that you be baptized by immersion when you were of an age to realize the significance of the rite – often 10 -12 years of age, or as adults. Barbara thought she and Lorraine and possibly Paul were all baptized in the Prairie Creek Baptist church baptismal. (In Paul’s writings he mentioned that Dad was instrumental in adding the basement to that church at which time the baptismal was included). Before that time baptisms were done at outside water locations, creeks, rivers, etc. That was probably the case with our older siblings (anyone know for sure?) The Prairie Creek Baptist church was without a minister for some time and eventually disbanded. I was baptized in the Baptist church in Central City when we moved to town in 1947. Because the country church was closed and without a minister during the time Jean would logically have been baptized, she missed out on that. Somehow I think that Jean was baptized later, privately, in the Presbyterian Church in Central City. This was perhaps before or at the time she and Ed married. I know the Presbyterian minister married them in the home wedding they had in our house in Central City. Do any of the Nelsen offspring know for sure? My children were all baptized in the Presbyterian church as babies by the “sprinkling” method. Then they were confirmed at a later age. It is interesting how varied our customs are.
Comments»
Very interesting, Jackie. I hope you get more comments on this post. I don’t recall Mother ever mentioning her baptism, either as a Baptist or later as a Catholic. Vicki – Teresa – to you remember? I do know that Mother frequently sang some beautiful hymns that were from her days in the Baptist church. At the time the Catholic hymns were not nearly as cheerful. I always felt that she resented having to convert when she married, and felt forced to comply with the rule that the children be raised in the Catholic faith. In that context, I enjoyed (and still admire) her willfulness as she sang Amazing Grace at the top of her lungs!
Jackie, I remember writing and asking my mom about being “dunked” (a long time ago when we all still wrote letters). The reason I asked was because I started going to a church where that was how people were baptised and I had never witnessed such a thing. My mom never responded, so I never brought it up again, out of respect for her privacy. But I have to say, it’s a beautiful thing to witness, especially when the person tells a little bit of their story…it’s one of those rare moments when I want to laugh and cry at the same time. I just love “fools for love”.
The Presbyterian church records here in Central City show that Gloria Jean Nelsen was baptized in the church April 15, 1949 and then her membership was transferred to the Presbyterian church in Norfolk on November 26, 1956. So, Stephanie, that explains it.
I was glad to get it clear in my mind and to know that my recollection was correct, though vague. I suppose most churches keep good records but I know our church does, having served as an Elder for several terms. I don’t know how Jean felt about not being immersed in baptism but obviously she wanted to be baptized and I know Ed would have encouraged that and of course that was the church he was brought up in.
I remember when Don and I were to be married and were realizing the Baptist church just couldn’t hold as many people as we might want to invite, Ed said to me that we could be married in the Presbyterian church. In those days a bride was married in her own church if it was to be a church wedding. Now, of course, it is common to use any church if you have permission. The Baptists used to be pretty strict that to be a member of the Baptist church you had to be baptized by immersion. I don’t know if that is still the way.
I think in most American Baptist Churches, you can join as an associate member but are not permitted to hold office except to be on committee’s etc. I know that in our church, associate members cannot vote in the business meetings either. Each individual church can make the rules they wish to follow. That’s what makes us Baptists! We are certainly independent. In the Fundamental Baptist Churches though, I doubt they are allowed membership except by baptism — although that is my feeling only!
I remember when Vi joined the Catholic Church, she never gave any indication to anyone that she had any reservations about it. Of course, she was in LOVE and that does strange things to one. I know that later, I knew she didn’t really like all the rules and regulations. I think, and I could be mistaken, that it was during the wedding ceremony that she was also taken in as a member. Could that be? Although I know before she was married she had a prayer book and other things == so maybe it happened before the wedding. Someone in our family surely knows so set us straight! Vi and I were talking about Royal one time and her joining the Benedictine Nuns and she made some remark about it being “unnatural” state.
I imagine Mother took a series of instruction sessions during which she got a prayer book and undoubtedly a handful of “holy cards”, and that she had a quiet, private baptism ceremony, which in the Catholic Church is prayers and holy water and swearing to “renounce the devil and all his works and pomps”. (Oh, my) I’d love to hear more “takes” on Mother’s conversion to the Catholic faith. She never seemed to resent going to church on Sunday, and she continued to do so after Daddy died. However, I remember her lightly veiled disgust when Vicki and I had to memorize the Baltimore Catechism. Nor did she like the continual plea for more money from the pulpit as well as in the classrooms. There were some beliefs she refused to adopt, especially the one that said only Catholics were “saved”, the implication being that everyone else was going to hell. It was very difficult for her to accept Vicki’s going to the Holy Cross Novitiate, and I remember her saying that Royal’s joining the nuns was such a waste. Daddy was a member of the Holy Name Society and the Knights of Columbus, so one would think he was wrapped up in church doings, but I believe that in the long run he thought of those organizations as social, not religious. I really have no idea what Mother’s beliefs were, other than knowing that she had a strong faith in another power outside herself, and that she tried to be kind to everyone and tolerant of others’ beliefs.
I can’t speak to Vi’s situation, however I can speak to my own conversion. I was baptised in the First Baptist Church in Boise when I was about 13. It was by immersion. When I converted to the Catholic faith (by choice, not by marriage) I did not have to be baptised again. Catholics believe in only one baptism as long as it is by a Christian faith. I was “confirmed.” Again, I can’t speak to the Catholic faith in Vi’s day, but since Vatican II there really isn’t much difference between Catholism and other Christian faiths. The Eucharist is the center of the mass and we believe that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ; this is the main difference. We embrace all Christian faiths and in fact in Boise, we work very closely with other Christian faiths on matters concerning our community like homelessness, lack of medical care, poverty, etc., etc. During Lent, we rotate with other churches to serve Lenten meals.
I do know Vi was very kind and gentle and had a beautiful spirit. I remember attending church at St. Mary’s with Vi and I was always drawn to the mystery (Latin and backs turned to congregation)…how surprised I was to find that Priests really are human and now speak in English and talk directly to the people.